At its best, gaming is a medium for bringing people of all stripes together. That’s the purpose behindDames 4 Games, a showcase series that highlights the work of women and femme-identified people in the video game industry, but the fact thatDames 4 Gamesexists shows the industry still needs to grow, argues its founder.

Founder Destinee Cleveland recently spoke to Game Rant about the goals of the Dames 4 Games, ahead of the March 5 showcase that kicks off Women’s History Month. Broadly, she thinks the industry is headed in the right direction but still has a lot of room to grow.

The Inevitability of the Backlash

One of the most visible examples that suggest gaming spaces still need growth is the constant backlash anytime a protagonist is not a white man. That storm is predictable and almost like clockwork, a sentiment echoed bymany voices in the industry. While Cleveland believes this trend is improving, when a game likeIntergalacticgets announced with a woman of color protagonist, Cleveland isn’t even surprised by certain corners of the internet lighting torches and grabbing pitchforks.

“I think, as a Black woman growing up in the South, I am used to it. I’m used to the backlash of certain things, and where you want to be like it’s not even surprising anymore, that’s the disappointing part. For example, when they announcedIntergalactic, they showed the main character and there was this backlash. It’s almost like we knew it was coming, and it makes me just want to fight more…Because personally, forIntergalactic, I was super excited. I get excited anytime I see a Black female character however she’s represented in a game because you just don’t see it that often.”

Cleveland said that seeing a protagonist who is a Black woman, like the lead inIntergalactic, means the world to her. Even games that have deep flaws likeForspokenhave meaning to her in the form of representation. It’s about being seen, and in tune, being able to see one’s self in the role of the protagonist. There’s power in stories that highlight someone a marginalized person can connect with, especially because they are such major deviations from the norm. Those being deviations from the norm are part of why the backlash exists, said Cleveland.

To her, the fact that the industry isonly beginning to feature women, in particular women of color, in lead roles without hypersexualizing themlike early iterations of Lara Croft fromTomb Raideror Tifa Lockheart fromFinal Fantasy 7contributes heavily to the backlash. Once women protagonists likeHorizon’s Aloy,Star Wars Outlaws’ Kay Vess, andIntergalactic’s Jordan Munbecome the norm for AAA games, on par with their male counterparts, Cleveland believes that backlash will slowly fade away.

That doesn’t just apply to women. Queer, cultural, racial, and all other forms of representation face some backlash in AAA gaming.

A World That Doesn’t Need Dames 4 Games

Bringing representation for marginalized voices into the mainstream gaming is one reason Dames 4 Games exists. Paradoxically, her hope for the organization is that it helps foster such normalization of women in gaming, both on and behind the screen, that Dames 4 Games no longer serves a purpose. In a world where game protagonists truly represent all walks of life, a showcase focused on representation would be unnecessary. It is the world that the industry is slowly moving toward, Cleveland believes. While women make up nearly an equal share of gamers, they are still a noteworthy minority in the AAA industry andhave been famously harassedon many occasions. However, it’s really indie studios that are doing the bleeding edge when it comes to progress and representation, Cleveland said.

“I think AAA is working towards being more progressive, but I think the indie scene is where it’s at. There are so many incredible women and just they/them identifying individuals uplifting each other, but not only us in that group. We have a lot of male allies that are uplifting us as well, and that’s incredible…It’s not just us who are speaking up, it’s also our allies who are speaking up, it’s making our voice louder, and that’s what’s really important. It is a lot. I won’t say it’s a lot better, but it is better than it was five years ago even if we still have room for growth. I will just say that: as a society, we still have room for growth.”

That’s not to say AAA studios are not moving forward. From games likeCyberpunk 2077andStarfieldallowing deeper customization of gender identity and expression to positive representation of marginalized communitiesfrom games likeDragon Age: The VeilguardandIntergalactic, the industry moves forward as a whole in a game of inches. As she said,

“I hope that we come to a point where we don’t need a Dames 4 Games. I know that sounds weird, but I hope we get to a point where the workforce is almost 50/50, that it’s not an exception, that we don’t need to have showcases to represent women, because women are represented regardless. That’s what I hope. I mean, I love doing Dames 4 Games and I love sharing these stories, but at the same time, I’m doing it because no one else was doing it. Maybe if I do it…we won’t need to have shows like this anymore, because, you know, it’s just common knowledge that women are creating great stuff in the game industry. So that’s my hope.”

For now, Cleveland and the Dames 4 Games team plan to put on showcases to give women in the industry their flowers until they are no longer needed. The next Dames 4 Games showcase is booked for March 5, with one planned for later this summer as well.